Cholinergic Urticaria is a Kidney problem.
Post by: Batavan on February 24, 2012, 01:25:17 AM
I’ve been researching cholinergic urticaria for a while, and I’ve come to develop a theory that Cholinergic Urticaria (Cholinergic Urticaria) is a Kidney problem. I’ve written my own little personal paper on my internet research and I’m going to post a short overview of it here, in backwards form. Let me start off by saying that I was born early because the doctors thought there was a problem with my Kidneys. This “Kidney problem” leads gives me supporting evidence that this is what causes my Cholinergic Urticaria.
Your probably thinking that it could just be a coincidence, but take a look at this thread. A few people in that thread are claiming antibiotics have provoked Cholinergic Urticaria. Antibiotics can cause Kidney damage. Regardless of how it happens, I believe the problem is in the Kidneys. Why?
Well, the Kidneys are responsible for a process called homeostatis. The regulation of extracellular fluid (fluid that exists in between the cells of your body). They also regulate osmotic pressure of bodily fluids to make sure body fluids don’t become dilute or too concentrated. This means extracellular glucose and G ion can become too high, as well as sodium levels in your body.
Again, your probably wondering what this has to do with Cholinergic Urticaria.
According to a study by a couple of scientists (BLANDINA, FANTOZZI, MANNAIONI, MASINI) and some rats, they found that acetylcholine can cause mast cells to secrete (produce) histamines which are responsible for the hive outbreak. The scientists found that the histamine secretion is dependant on extracellular gluose and G ion. It is also affected by hypoxia (low oxygen levels) an a sodium rich environment. As mentioned earlier, if the Kidneys are not functioning correctly than the glucose, G ion and sodium levels could be higher than normal. Low oxygen could be caused by high altitudes, asthma, low iron, etc.
Acetylcholine. What is it, and how do we stop it from reacting with the mast cells?
Acetylcholine is neurotransmitter (a chemical transferred between neurons in the body for communicating messages). It is used throughout the parasympathetic nervous system (the system that puts your body at rest). It is also used in the Sympathetic nervous system (the system that activates your body in a fight-or-flight type of way). It is used in this system for adrenal glands and sweat glands. Adrenal glands and sweat glands are cholinergic because they use Acetylcholine. If your like me, you would notice that your hives are bad during stressful moments or highly emotional moments. I assume this is because these moments not only cause your hypothalamus to signal for sweat secretion, but also adrenaline secretion which involves more Acetylcholine, which reacts with the mast cells to produce histamines.
So in a nut shell, the Kidneys are not balancing glucose concentration, G ion concentration and sodium. Too much of this causes Acetylcholine to react with mast cells which produce histamines which cause the hives breakout.
I have noticed my outbreaks are worse after high calorie diets and I can assume that the high glucose and salt intake would cause a stronger reaction. I also suffer from asthma and I live at a high altitude which lowers my oxygen levels, also promoting histamine release with Acetylcholine. I also never drink water which also probably increases my extracellular concentrations since there is nothing to dilute it with.
The Cure?
Well, I don’t know how to fix a kidney, but I’m going to try and take in less glucose, salt and try and get my oxygen levels up (somehow), and try and drink more water.
Please let me know about your diet, asthma/oxygen conditions and other factors much like I have mentioned.
If you have any questions, input, feedback or challenges to my theory, please let me know. Please note that this is all from my understanding based on my research and I have no previous knowledge with biology so some things may be slightly off. Please let me know so I can expand my knowledge.
Thanks for reading!
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Title: Re: Cholinergic Urticaria is a Kidney problem.
Post by: HivesGuy on February 24, 2012, 04:34:23 AM
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Hey Batavan,
Thanks for this interesting post. This is actually something I’ve considered before. It’s always possible that at the very least–kidney problems could make Cholinergic Urticaria worse. But they could have direct involvement as well. While more research would need to be done, I though’t I’d post a few things with my body that you may find interesting (I love looking at possibilities and patterns in things).
Here are some things I’ve had which caused me to slightly suspect that I may have had kidney trouble in the past. It may be something I really have problems with in the future, unfortunately.
My Possible Signs of Kidney Issues:
1. Ear Pit–I have something called an Ear Pit, which is pretty harmless. But what intrigued me when I read about it online was the fact that people with an Ear Pit may have a higher risk of anatomical issues or renal (kidney) abnormalities. You can read my post about that by clicking the ear pit link in the previous sentence.
2. Kidney Pain–I’ve posted about how soft drinks caused kidney pain in the past when I consumed too much caffeine. I’ve also had kidney pain in the past from this. It was so bad, that I even went to the doctor about it as a teen (which was a little before I first got Cholinergic Urticaria if I recall correctly).
Of course, it was a complete waste of time as the doctor just looked at me like I was crazy and explained that softdrinks go into your stomach, not your kidneys (I kid you not).
3. Protein in Urine–Every single time since I’ve been a teenager that I’ve ever had my urine tested during a physical, they’ve always replied that “It’s normal, but you do have some protein in your urine.” I’ve always been perplexed at why that is, but that can sometimes be associated with malfunctioning kidneys.
4. My Diet Improves My Hives–I’ve posted several times on my website and this forum about how my diet has resolved my hives issues. I suspected that it could be allergies and fat loss, but looking at it from the kidney perspective, it could also be due to less salt, sugar, calories, preservatives, etc. that I was consuming.
In fact, I’d be very suspicious of the junk they keep putting in foods these days. This stuff is slowly killing us all. Seems like every week I read in the news of a new preservative or chemical found to mess up the body that’s been put in our food for years. But anyway, it seems that reducing these foods caused my body to definitely function better.
5. Angiolipomas–This is kind of a side note, but I’ve always had these things called angiolipomas. They are basically harmless small tumors under the skin, which aren’t really visible to people but I can feel them. I’ve had one removed, and I have a few others. It has always made me wonder if my body doesn’t process fats well or something, and does not store them properly–thus causing them to build up into small harmless fatty tumors.
In addition to the kidneys, I’ve also considered other conditions in the past which affect the kidneys. For example, for a while I wondered if I could have Fabry’s disease (or something similar to it). It listed a lot of symptoms I had, but at this point I don’t think I have it.
My point is that it could be kidney related, but the kidney issues could even be a part of another issue (such as genetic issues, renal abnormalities, or other diseases or enzyme deficiencies which directly cause kidney problems later on).
This was an interesting post, and I’d like to encourage you to continue researching it. Let us know if you find more info.
As a side note: With so many people who have lived quite a long time with this (some 30 years or so), it does seem that if there is a renal issue which contributes to Cholinergic Urticaria, it must not be a fatal or terminal issue, which I guess is good news.
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Title: Re: Cholinergic Urticaria is a Kidney problem.
Post by: void on February 24, 2012, 08:54:12 AM
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Quote from: Batavan on February 24, 2012, 01:25:17 AM
I’ve been researching cholinergic urticaria for a while, and I’ve come to develop a theory that Cholinergic Urticaria (Cholinergic Urticaria) is a Kidney problem. I’ve written my own little personal paper on my internet research and I’m going to post a short overview of it here, in backwards form. Let me start off by saying that I was born early because the doctors thought there was a problem with my Kidneys. This “Kidney problem” leads gives me supporting evidence that this is what causes my Cholinergic Urticaria. Your probably thinking that it could just be a coincidence, but take a look at this thread. A few people in that thread are claiming antibiotics have provoked Cholinergic Urticaria. Antibiotics can cause Kidney damage. Regardless of how it happens, I believe the problem is in the Kidneys. Why?
People take 235 million doses of antibiotics every year. Don’t you think the frequency of people with cholinergic urticaria would be one hundred fold if it was caused by antibiotics? You would be a very rich man if you could prove that antibiotics can cause irreversible kidney damage enough to provoke a classifiable skin disease.
Im not picking on you or your theory I just think there is a lot of holes in your theory. I myself had an untrasound on my kidneys which found abnormal kidney mass.
Well, the Kidneys are responsible for a process called homeostatis. The regulation of extracellular fluid (fluid that exists in between the cells of your body). They also regulate osmotic pressure of bodily fluids to make sure body fluids don’t become dilute or too concentrated. This means extracellular glucose and G ion can become too high, as well as sodium levels in your body.
Again, your probably wondering what this has to do with Cholinergic Urticaria.
According to a study by a couple of scientists (BLANDINA, FANTOZZI, MANNAIONI, MASINI) and some rats, they found that acetylcholine can cause mast cells to secrete (produce) histamines which are responsible for the hive outbreak. The scientists found that the histamine secretion is dependant on extracellular gluose and G ion. It is also affected by hypoxia (low oxygen levels) an a sodium rich environment. As mentioned earlier, if the Kidneys are not functioning correctly than the glucose, G ion and sodium levels could be higher than normal. Low oxygen could be caused by high altitudes, asthma, low iron, etc.
Serum histamine levels are not elevated in all cholinergic urticaria patients and are not correlated with the severity of symptoms!
5 Kaplan AP, Gray L, Shaff RE, Horakova Z, Beaven MA. In vivo studies
of mediator release in cold urticaria and cholinergic urticaria. J Allergy
Clin Immunol 1975; 55: 394–402
Acetylcholine. What is it, and how do we stop it from reacting with the mast cells?
Acetylcholine is neurotransmitter (a chemical transferred between neurons in the body for communicating messages). It is used throughout the parasympathetic nervous system (the system that puts your body at rest). It is also used in the Sympathetic nervous system (the system that activates your body in a fight-or-flight type of way). It is used in this system for adrenal glands and sweat glands. Adrenal glands and sweat glands are cholinergic because they use Acetylcholine.
If your like me, you would notice that your hives are bad during stressful moments or highly emotional moments. I assume this is because these moments not only cause your hypothalamus to signal for sweat secretion, but also adrenaline secretion which involves more Acetylcholine, which reacts with the mast cells to produce histamines.
Hyperactivity to cholinergic agents is not observed in all cases of cholinergic urticaria either.
Cholinergic urticaria: pathogenesis-based categorization
and its treatment options
S Nakamizo, G Egawa,* Y Miyachi, K Kabashima
Department of Dermatology, Kyoto University, Kyoto, Japan
So in a nut shell, the Kidneys are not balancing glucose concentration, G ion concentration and sodium. Too much of this causes Acetylcholine to react with mast cells which produce histamines which cause the hives breakout.
I have noticed my outbreaks are worse after high calorie diets and I can assume that the high glucose and salt intake would cause a stronger reaction. I also suffer from asthma and I live at a high altitude which lowers my oxygen levels, also promoting histamine release with Acetylcholine. I also never drink water which also probably increases my extracellular concentrations since there is nothing to dilute it with.
Out breaks are worse after a high calorie meal due to the thermogenic effect of food
The Cure?
Well, I don’t know how to fix a kidney, but I’m going to try and take in less glucose, salt and try and get my oxygen levels up (somehow), and try and drink more water.
Salt should be avoided by anyone with cholinergic urticaria because it stimulates the central nervous system to produce adrenalin which is a vasoconstrictor which increases blood pressure thus decreasing the duration of exertion needed to cause the sweat glands to be stimulated. Which is why beta blockers help to a certain extent for Cholinergic Urticaria by reducing adrenalin in the system
It’s not because it effects the kidneys…
Please let me know about your diet, asthma/oxygen conditions and other factors much like I have mentioned.
If you have any questions, input, feedback or challenges to my theory, please let me know. Please note that this is all from my understanding based on my research and I have no previous knowledge with biology so some things may be slightly off. Please let me know so I can expand my knowledge.
Thanks for reading!
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Title: Re: Cholinergic Urticaria is a Kidney problem.
Post by: Batavan on February 24, 2012, 12:02:26 PM
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Quote
People take 235 million doses of antibiotics every year. Don’t you think the frequency of people with cholinergic urticaria would be one hundred fold if it was caused by antibiotics? You would be a very rich man if you could prove that antibiotics can cause irreversible kidney damage enough to provoke a classifiable skin disease.
Im not picking on you or your theory I just think there is a lot of holes in your theory. I myself had an untrasound on my kidneys which found abnormal kidney mass.
I’m not saying taking an antibiotic will necessarily destroy your kidney, but it could be possible that people with Cholinergic Urticaria have a (possibly genetic?) kidney condition that is sensitive to antibiotics or some other drug which causes the onset of Cholinergic Urticaria. Or maybe the Kidney damage is the result of Analgesic nephropathy. I probably could have chosen a better word than “damage” since I don’t think antibiotics irreversibly damage the kidney, but do have an impact on it.
Your kidney mass, and HivesGuy’s suspected kidney issues also seem to support my theory. It would be interesting to know how many other people with Cholinergic Urticaria have or suspect kidney problems.
Also, HivesGuy, The Kidney problem you described seems very familiar. I used to get a random cramping/aching feeling just below my rib cage on my back and always thought it was just some muscle cramping since it occasionally came and went away. But now I realize that it may have been my kidneys. I do drink caffeinated soft drinks almost daily and don’t experience pain but I’m going to try and cut down after reading your article.
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Title: Re: Cholinergic Urticaria is a Kidney problem.
Post by: hieveryone on March 05, 2012, 04:55:41 AM
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If it can help, I also have random pains in the back, specially when I take sugars o vitamins, in the zone where I think the kidneys are. To be honest, it makes me a little scary to check it, and I swear that when I entered today to the forum (I’ve haven’t been here since a long time) I was thinking about my kidney (In my case, the pain is in a specific zone, so I think it may be only one), and since this pain started (1 year, much after I developed Cholinergic Urticaria, 8 years ago) I wondered if it would be related, maybe its a consecuence of this histamine levels.
I really found this post interesting, I hope you can update your results. (note: I also think my body doesn’t process the fats well, as I’m pretty skinny and usually have some drandruff, if I don’t exercise A LOT). After reading this, I may reconsider going to the doctor and telling him about this.