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Keratosis Pilaris, Blocked Pores, or Skin Film Cause Cholinergic Urticaria?

January 9, 2010 by Hivesguy

Keratosis Pilaris, Blocked Pores, or Skin Film Cause Cholinergic Urticaria? Post by: HivesGuy on February 07, 2009, 04:26:07 PM

Hello Everyone!
I posted a blog post today about something I just realized I have (Keratosis Pilaris). I also found at least 1 other mention of another Cholinergic Urticaria person having this condition as well. I just wanted to know if any of you have it? What are your thoughts about this possibly being involved with Cholinergic Urticaria?
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First Reply:
 
Yeah, looking at my body now I can’t see this, but it looks very familiar, I’ve definitely seen that on me on several occasions.
Have you found any examples of over the counter lotions, I’m struggling to find something to try.
Edit: I’m going to order some stuff.
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Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: HivesGuy on February 08, 2009, 10:11:28 AM

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Yeah, looking at my body now I can’t see this, but it looks very familiar, I’ve definitely seen that on me on several occasions.
Have you found any examples of over the counter lotions, I’m struggling to find something to try.
Edit: I’m going to order some of this

I don’t know of any name brands off the top of my head. That link says it has the urea stuff in it, and many websites I read says that it can help to loosen up the skin. Yesterday I bought a “loofa” and a really rough sponge. I also bought some exfoliating body wash (generic brand). I plan to really scrub hard in the shower, and then immediately put on regular lotion (no urea or anything) I have.
I will see how that plays out over the next few weeks. They do make lotions with those chemicals, but I think some of them actually require a prescription. I am not sure though, but I didn’t notice any at the store when I was there.
It may be that treating our Cholinergic Urticaria will be a combination of eliminating foods that cause skin symptoms (such as the bumps on our hands), scrubbing our skin to remove excessive keratin & free our pores, getting some sun exposure, and sweating on a regular basis.
Maybe those things will make it better. I always do feel as if my sweat pores are just clogged or something.


Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: dice on February 08, 2009, 12:48:35 PM


Looking at some of the symptoms, I do believe I may have this… tbh I just assumed that this was common although I do recall a friend saying how spotty (rash-like) my elbow area looked a few months ago.

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: HivesGuy on February 08, 2009, 01:30:48 PM


Wow, I wonder if this thing causes Cholinergic Urticaria, or if the two are just often found together. Very interesting. I can’t wait to hear if anyone else has this.
I just got out of the shower a couple of hours ago. I scrubbed my whole body really hard with this hard spong thing. Then I used a loofa. Then I got out and immediately applied lotion.
I am anxious to see if it gets any better over the next few weeks. Also, you may want to read about the photoperiod effect on skin.

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: billysielu on February 08, 2009, 03:52:24 PM


Oh, something else that’s worth noting. I’ve found that vigorous hair-combing helps with the itchy scalp. I suppose the same applies, that it removes dead skin. Helps me, worth a try.

Title: Well done HivesGuy. Well Done. Post by: HiverNation on February 08, 2009, 05:21:29 PM


Is Keratosis Pilaris (Chicken Skin) & Cholinergic Urticaria Connected? article
well done.
keep up the trying.
let me know how this goes.
in other news, i havent gotten sun exposure, taken any pills (fish oil or multi V)
and ive just been running every day and running through intense pain
seems to me like what im doing is not going to work. but i will start taking the fish oil and b vitamins again so i can run.
i believe its all about getting sunlight still.

Title: Re: Well done HivesGuy. Well Done. Post by: HiverNation on February 08, 2009, 05:24:59 PM


oh and by the way i also have that bumps condition thing now that u mention it

Title: Re: Well done HivesGuy. Well Done. Post by: HiverNation on February 08, 2009, 05:34:57 PM


in addition i will also say that in all your pictures your skin looks like it gets ZEROOOO sunlight
like many of us

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: HivesGuy on February 09, 2009, 05:00:46 PM

thanks for the tip. I get a really itchy scalp too when I break out, and I never really comb my hair. I just get out of the shower, dry it off, and then let it dry. But I will start combing it, and scrubbing it more in the shower too.

Title: Re: Well done HivesGuy. Well Done. Post by: HivesGuy on February 09, 2009, 05:05:19 PM


Thanks for the compliment on the article! I think several now have also found that they have this condition. It will be interesting to see if we can help it, and if it impacts Cholinergic Urticaria. I am not sure if they two occur together, or if one thing is causing the other.
And yes, I know I am PASTY white lol. I do neet sun exposure desparately, and one of the interesting things is that it helps not only Cholinergic Urticaria, but also the Keratosis pilaris thing also. So it can’t hurt either way, and I am really looking forward to being outside anyways (I get tired of being cooped indoors all day in this cold weather).
I am literally counting down the days until spring and summer arrives. Just a little over a month for spring!

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: ww2 on February 19, 2009, 11:33:22 PM


I think I have this. There are bumps on my back I thought were acne, but they’ve been there for a while now.

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: HivesGuy on February 20, 2009, 05:23:34 AM


I think I have this. There are bumps on my back I thought were acne, but they’ve been there for a while now.

I too get bumps on my back. I have acne back there too, but I also think some of the bumps are the Keratosis Pilaris. I also have it on the back of my arms, and a little towards the top of my back thighs.
None of them are terribly noticeable unless I zoom in with a camera. In fact, I didn’t really think much of them until I seen that another Cholinergic Urticaria person had this.


Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: Amantis on March 05, 2009, 10:10:53 PM


Oh yeah, I’ve had this for a while now, since I was maybe 13. On my arms and chest, at first it was attributed to dry skin but its definitely not just that but yeah the dermatologist said its this. So thats that

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: HivesGuy on March 06, 2009, 06:15:38 AM


Oh yeah, I’ve had this for a while now, since I was maybe 13. On my arms and chest, at first it was attributed to dry skin but its definitely not just that but yeah the dermatologist said its this. So thats that

Wow, this is really interesting. It seems most of us have this condition, so it must in some way be associated with Cholinergic Urticaria. Hopefully we will keep finding out more info about it, and ourselves.


Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: crowebirds on March 08, 2009, 01:35:53 AM


I believe after some of my own research that KP is definitely a part of Cholinergic Urticaria, but based on family history, it is not necessarily a cause. KP runs in my family. It seems as though half the family has it and the other half does not. This synopsis covers four generations on my mother’s side. My daughter is the only one with urticarial reactions. She has Cholinergic Urticaria times 2; Cold Urticaria and Cholinergic Urticaria. Despite Rhinitis, and intestinal disturbances which I believe are related, she is otherwise very healthy. She rarely gets colds, flu, etc. She is very athletic (high level excercise 3 hours a week). And, she has hypohydrosis. Her reactions are full body and quite severe. She fits the model, but then again so does the rest of the family (minus the urticaria).

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: HivesGuy on March 08, 2009, 08:28:56 AM


I believe after some of my own research that KP is definitely a part of Cholinergic Urticaria, but based on family history, it is not necessarily a cause. KP runs in my family. It seems as though half the family has it and the other half does not. This synopsis covers four generations on my mother’s side. My daughter is the only one with urticarial reactions. She has Cholinergic Urticaria times 2; Cold Urticaria and Cholinergic Urticaria. Despite Rhinitis, and intestinal disturbances which I believe are related, she is otherwise very healthy. She rarely gets colds, flu, etc. She is very athletic (high level excercise 3 hours a week). And, she has hypohydrosis. Her reactions are full body and quite severe. She fits the model, but then again so does the rest of the family (minus the urticaria).

That is interesting about the cold/flu thing. I myself have not been seriously sick in years! I have had maybe 1 or 2 very minor colds that cleared up in a couple of days. In fact, I used to get strep throat almost every year when I was young & in my teens. Yet I haven’t had a single antibiotic since I first got Cholinergic Urticaria over 7 years ago.
The Keratosis Pilaris this is interesting too, as it seems in some way to be related to Cholinergic Urticaria, and even other hives. I don’t know if it is merely associated with it, if it causes it, or what is going on. But this is definitely an interesting patter this is starting to emerge.


Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: Charles B. Good on April 22, 2009, 10:57:56 AM


I have Cholinergic Urticaria and KP.
Why are we only examining what’s possible? I believe both can be caused by bugs. KP can be very red too then it’s called KP rubra in my case KP rubra faceii cause I have it on my face and it’s very red. H.Pylori are urease secreting bacteria, messing up the urea-cycle and I’m kind of thinking this could cause many many skin disorders like for example KP or eczema, psoriasis…. Urea is what keeps your skin smooth. Ow, smoothness, something I lack… >:( But these bugs are the ones that are most known. What about the others, the ones no one thinks off? Chlamydia for example can be passed on through generations and be “asymptomatic”, meaning you are apparently “healthy”. It’s known that it can cause skin disorders too, so why is no one investigating this???? Sure, you can keep an alkaline diet and pretend you’re fine. Because that’s what an alkaline diet does, it only inhibits the growth of some bacteria, but that’s not a solution, cause as soon as you stop balancing your pH IT WILL COME BACK. :'( I’m really pissed off, is this a boycott from the cosmetic industry? Or is no one focusing on skin diseases cause we’re not on our deathbed ‘yet’? Well, I’m dead alive, which is worse, much much worse! Just now I came back from the doctor and she basically said I was crazy for asking for such an ‘extended’ blood test. She refused to thick off some stuff cause it was just IMPOSSIBLE that I would have that. I’m overall “healthy” according to doctors, I’m so healthy that people scream when they see my skin… I really hope this bacteriological test is going to reveal something cause I might get sick of this and put an end to it! I’ve had enough!
Godspeed to everyone

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: StrongerThanHives on April 22, 2009, 12:20:57 PM


I have KP on the back of my arms.
I skimmed over the posts on this thread and read something about loofahs. I’ve been using one and scrubbing well even thought it hurts. I’ve backed off the intense scrubbing recently, because my hives have started to go away (but the intense scrubbing still hurts and causes a hive like reaction).
but since scrubbing I’ve seen slight improvements in my KP.

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: HivesGuy on April 22, 2009, 02:02:37 PM


Excellent post Charles B Good & Welcome to the forum!
I can definitely relate to your anger & frustration in dealing with this. I know that the intense feeling of Cholinergic Urticaria is enough to drive someone mad, not to mention a bad case of KP.
You are right that there is always a possibility of some kind of infection or something, but as of yet, nothing has appeared.
I myself have had a blood test for H. Pylori (negative), took an anti-candida treatment, and many on the forum have had extensive bloodwork done with no results. Even some have had allergy tests, STD tests, and thyroid tests without anything conclusive.
That isn’t to say that there isn’t something causing it, or that none of us have an infection of some kind (It could be different for all of us). But at this point we haven’t found that “silver bullet” that causes Cholinergic Urticaria.
But I do definitely feel your pain, as this is sometimes like a living nightmare. But as hard as it gets, I think it is really important to try & focus on the positives. If we don’t, we let the hives/KP/eczema win. We shouldn’t let it win!
I can’t wait to see if your newest tests reveal anything. I pray that we can find something causing this that is easily curable. It would be so awesome to take some treatment and be done with this forever.
Please let us know if you find anything out. Thanks again for the awesome post, and hang in there Charles B Good!

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: Honkymagoo on April 22, 2009, 09:17:54 PM


I do have chicken skin as well (got it from my mom.) I’ve had it for as long as I can remember. I also have fairly dry skin on most of my body (worst are hands and face) and some some patches of eczema on my arms and back. Eczema only flares up in the winter and the patches are small.

Title: Re: Do You Have Keratosis Pilaris? What Are Your Thoughts About This? Post by: HivesGuy on April 23, 2009, 06:44:36 AM


I do have chicken skin as well (got it from my mom.) I’ve had it for as long as I can remember. I also have fairly dry skin on most of my body (worst are hands and face) and some some patches of eczema on my arms and back. Eczema only flares up in the winter and the patches are small.

Yes, it seems that many of us that have cholinergic urticaria also have keratosis pilaris. Seems strange.


Title: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: MoshiMoshi on May 04, 2009, 12:56:03 AM


I’ve noticed that mostly on my torso (chest, back etc) I can actually see the blockages of my pores, and i can actually scratch it out. The most similar thing ive seen to the blockages is the white coloured stuff you can scratch off your chin (could be fat maybe? Some sort of bacterial residue? Infection?).
Its easier to notice for me because I have darker skin, so my question is has anyone else noticed a similar thing?
Because this could support the ideas of some sort of bacterial infection clogging up the pores and preventing sweating.

Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: billysielu on May 04, 2009, 02:36:55 AM


Yep blocked pores, check. I often think of this when I shower, as I am able to physically remove dirt from my skin. I’m not about to tell everyone to start scratching themselves though lol

Quote
A typical Roman bath started in the apodyterium or changing rooms, where people would take their clothes off in small cubicles and leave their slaves to guard them. From there, they would step into the unctuarium where they had various oils rubbed onto their skin and could then exercise in one of the exercise yards or Palaestra. From there, they would generally move to the tepidarium or warm room, where they would lie around chatting with their friends, with attendants serving them snacks and drinks. The tepidarium was a transitional area and a preparation for the hot caldarium. The latter is the equivalent of a sauna or steam bath, hot and steamy with heated floors where the bathers would sweat profusely while scraping their skin with a strigil. This curved metal tool was used to remove the oils, which were used by the common people instead of the very expensive soaps, only accessible to the rich.

Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: Charles B. Good on May 04, 2009, 07:21:38 AM


I have keratosis pilaris and on their forum someone suggested using natural or hypoallergenic products for washing. The less chemicals, the better. I used to be able to scratch this “dirt” off. I really don’t know what it is, but it was like a white layer or something that was over my skin and I could scratch it away or it would appear when I rubbed my towel against my torso. Anyway, I’ve been using hypoallergenic stuff for 4 days,and it’s A LOT better since then. I also started washing my clothes with ecoballs instead of detergent and fabric softener. Maybe it’ll help Cholinergic Urticaria too. I really hope so, but it’s too soon to tell…

Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: MoshiMoshi on May 04, 2009, 10:07:56 AM


Im not entirely sure we’re on about the same things here, the stuff im talking about actually comes out of your skin, like it comes out through the pores… Or is it only me? lol

Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: HivesGuy on May 04, 2009, 11:03:11 AM


Im not entirely sure we’re on about the same things here, the stuff im talking about actually comes out of your skin, like it comes out through the pores… Or is it only me? lol

Is this just on your face/chin that you have noticed this, or is it everywhere on your body? I have really not noticed anything major other than the keratosis pilaris I get on the back of my arms, and also occasional dry skin, blackheads, etc.


Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: MoshiMoshi on May 04, 2009, 12:10:12 PM


No, i notice this is present on my chin (specifically the part parallel to the mouth) and my torso. Its not really as present on my arms and legs, but i have a feeling only i can notice this… hmm something to raise with the dermatologist i think

Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: billysielu on May 05, 2009, 10:23:08 AM


Yes I notice it on my inner-elbows. It’s almost like picking a spot, but it’s not a spot. It’s just “stuff” that comes out of pores.

Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: MoshiMoshi on May 05, 2009, 02:32:13 PM


Yes I notice it on my inner-elbows. It’s almost like picking a spot, but it’s not a spot. It’s just “stuff” that comes out of pores.

yep, hit the nail right on the head. I still haven’t had any success with identifying what it actually is. If you make any progress be sure to post back here ;D


Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: HivesGuy on May 06, 2009, 05:06:32 AM


Hmmm, I don’t think I really have seen anything like that on me. On a part of my inner left ear, I did have this white stuff on it one time, but I assumed it was soap I may have missed. Other than that, I can’t really say I know of anything.
Although, I do notice the “peeling skin” thing sometimes when I get out of the shower & rub with a towel. Like my skin is dry or peeling off or something.

Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: MoshiMoshi on May 06, 2009, 06:52:54 AM


Hmmm, I don’t think I really have seen anything like that on me. On a part of my inner left ear, I did have this white stuff on it one time, but I assumed it was soap I may have missed. Other than that, I can’t really say I know of anything.
Although, I do notice the “peeling skin” thing sometimes when I get out of the shower & rub with a towel. Like my skin is dry or peeling off or something.

Could be eczema? Eczema causes peeling skin and things like that. Where abouts do you experience the peeling skin?
Or it may be simply lack of moisturiser, shower too hot (causing skin to dry rapidly straight after and flaking skin).


Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: HivesGuy on May 06, 2009, 11:32:52 AM


Just sometimes after the shower when I am rubbing my skin I see some skin that is rolling around. You know how when you rub your two hands together for a long time & the friction causes the skin to start to come off, kind of like that. It is mostly on my arms/chest that I notice it.
It could just be eczema, soap residue, or perhaps just dead skin coming off?

Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: Charles B. Good on May 07, 2009, 04:32:35 AM


Yup, I have it on my chest. Dunno what it is. Perhaps it’s just soap residue and we’re making something out of nothing 🙂

Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: billysielu on May 07, 2009, 10:38:14 AM


Yeah I get that too, not sure what it is.

Title: Re: Visually Blocked Pores Post by: MoshiMoshi on May 07, 2009, 11:10:46 AM


Just sometimes after the shower when I am rubbing my skin I see some skin that is rolling around. You know how when you rub your two hands together for a long time & the friction causes the skin to start to come off, kind of like that. It is mostly on my arms/chest that I notice it.
It could just be eczema, soap residue, or perhaps just dead skin coming off?

Yeah I see what you mean. But I don’t think it’s the same thing
I personally think it’s fats or residue linked to bacteria, I will have to forward it to my dermatologist. Thanks for the replies!


Title: Exfoliating Skin & Cleansing for Cholinergic Urticaria Post by: Joeshep on August 18, 2009, 09:30:09 AM


Recently, I have been getting quite bad acne on my back and on my shoulders (what I did wrong in my previous life I do not know :-). Anyway I mentioned the issue as a side note when I went to see the doctor about my Cholinergic Urticaria and he recommended I try using ‘exfoliating gloves’. So I went out and bought some. They are very cheap. They only cost me £1 here in England and have started using them. Since using them not only have I seen a good improvement to the condition to my skin but I am quite sure it has helped my Cholinergic Urticaria quite dramatically. I’ll still feel the precence Cholinergic Urticaria lurking but over the past few days I’ll feel an attack coming on and I’ll get over heated but then the attack just halts itself before what would usually be a full blown outbreak. I’m sure it isn’t any medication I’ve been taking because I haven’t taken any recently.
Whether or not exfoliating the skin is opening up my pores or something I’m not sure but I’ve definately noticed a decline in the severity of the attacks. This might be a complete coincidence but I’ll be sure to keep you all informed about it..

Title: The Crud Film on My SKin Related to Cholinergic Urticaria? Post by: StrongerThanHives on September 15, 2009, 12:50:51 PM


I have this film of crud on my skin too.
I have this new theory that scrubbing my self more makes the hives happen less. Maybe because it’s helping remove the film?
idk but I am 90% sure this has something to do with what happens in the shower.
My new test will be to actively scrub and actively make sure this film of crud is gone.

Title: Re: The Crud Film Post by: HivesGuy on September 16, 2009, 03:00:18 AM


Hey Stronger,
Thanks for letting me know that you have this as well. It is definitely odd.
I bought a scrub pad at walmart, and some more distilled water, and I will be scrubbing just like you. I think another big key is to avoid any hard water that causes this crud. Scrubbing alone only works so much if the hard water is still putting layers of this stuff on the skin.
I can’t wait to get away from this terrible water, and I know that it has made my hives worse (and may even be the cause in the first place).
I will try to update later this week about my scrubbing.

Title: Re: The Crud Film Post by: adityadennis on October 05, 2009, 11:06:04 AM


I’ve noticed something similar on my skin – a shiny (sort of sparkly) layer of something. I’ll try the scrubbing pad.

Title: Re: The Crud Film Post by: StrongerThanHives on October 10, 2009, 04:56:22 AM


“”Many people with severe ichthyosis have problems sweating due to the build up of scales on the skin. This may lead to problems such as “prickly itch” or problems associated with overheating. The majority of people with vulgaris can sweat at least a little. Paradoxically this means most would be more comfortable living in a hot and humid climate. Sweating helps to shed scales which improves the appearance of the skin and prevents “prickly itch”.
Strong air-conditioning and excessive consumption of alcohol can also increase the build up of scales.
Over 50% of people with ichthyosis vulgaris suffer from some type of atopic disease such as allergies, eczema, or asthma.[7] Another common condition associated with ichthyosis vulgaris is keratosis pilaris (small bumps mainly appearing on the back of the upper arms).[5]””
This research supports our theory that problems sweating resulting in the “prickly itching” sensation through overheating.
I know for a fact that I: 1) start to experience prickly itching when I feel “overheated.” 2) can sweat if I exercise, but only if I exercise rigorously. 3) do not see visible scales. 4) do have a film of “crud” on the outer layer of my skin when I shower. 5) do have eczema on the back of my upper arms.
The correlations between my symptoms and ichthyosis vulgaris are very strong, excepting the visible scales.
My current plan of action is to: 1)continue to remove the crud film, whether crud film be from dead skin cells, hard water, or soap scum. 2)Hydrate my skin frequently.
I may or may not be able to make the effort to sweat daily, but I will attempt to do so.
Based on: 1) my own experience 2) other’s experiences on this sight 3) and the research presented above … I am now strongly convinced that my problem (and a good majority of other Cholinergic Urticaria patients problems) is(/are) skin related (as opposed to chemical imbalance or allergy related). 1/250 people have ichthyosis vulgaris, and is very common. Having this disease, or something close to it, would not be unlikely.

Title: Re: The Crud Film Post by: StrongerThanHives on October 10, 2009, 10:50:38 PM


Finally, I have names for my symptoms!

Quote
Miliaria crystalline
The most superficial obstruction (with the most mild clinical presentation), is known as miliaria crystalline; instead of a rash the patient presents with multiple tiny blister-like lesions that look like beads of perspiration and essentially cause no symptoms.[2]:23[3]
Quote
Miliaria rubra
The most commonly encountered form of the illness is miliaria rubra, in which obstruction causes leakage of sweat into the deeper layers of the epidermis, provoking a local inflammatory reaction giving rise to the typical appearance of redness (hence rubra) and larger (but still only a few millimetres) blister-like lesions. This form of the illness is often accompanied by the typical symptoms – intense itching or “pins and needles” with a lack of sweating (anhidrosis) to affected areas. There is a small risk of heat exhaustion due to inability to sweat if the rash affects a large proportion of the body’s surface area and/or the sufferer continues to engage in heat-producing activity.

The pins and needles sensation I feel is known as “Miliaria Rubra”. When I exercise the small watery bubbles that form are my skin are called “Miliaria crystalline”.

Quote
Miliaria occurs when the sweat gland ducts get plugged due to dead skin cells or bacteria such as Staphylococcus epidermidis,[1] a common bacterium that occurs on the skin which is also associated with acne.

So the question is… do I have too many dead skin cells or too much bacteria? and, if I can continually clear the obstructions, will the leakages stop?
I will keep you all updated on my research.


Title: Re: The Crud Film Post by: StrongerThanHives on October 11, 2009, 12:06:25 AM


Quote
Anhidrosis was induced in volunteers by covering the skin with an impermeable plastic film.
The degree of sweat suppression and miliaria after a thermal stimulus was directly proportional to the increase in the density of resident aerobic bacteria, notably cocci. No anhidrosis resulted when antibacterial substances were used to prevent the expansion of the microflora.
Histological study showed a PAS-positive diastase resistant amorphous mass deep within the acrosyringium after 2 days of occlusion, accompanied by a periductal dermal infiltration of leukocytes. After another 2 days the duct became clogged by an amalgam of degenerating leukocytes. This impaction sloughed after about 3 weeks as a result of epidermal renewal. Colonies of bacteria were never found within the ducts.
It is postulated that cocci secrete a toxin which injures luminal cells and precipitates a cast within the lumen. Infiltration by leukocytes creates an impaction which completely obstructs the passage of sweat for several weeks.

After looking up many words, I learned about the “histological” (micro-organism) happenings behind this case study (and possibly my own case).
Piecing together information from my past research, I can attempt to form a more detailed explanation as to what is happening with my body. Some of this is based off of proper research and the rest is based on my own inductive reasoning.
1) There is an initial external sweat pore obstruction (dead skin cell, bacteria, or otherwise) 2) After two days a shapeless mass forms and white blood cells come deep within the sweat gland 3) After another two days the white blood cells die and completely obstruct the passage of sweat for several weeks. 4) When the body becomes hot the sweat gland generates sweat. 5) Some of this sweat becomes trapped in watery lesions. 6) Some of the sweat is trapped deeper within the sweat gland and causes the sweat gland to swell (inflame) and press against the Pacinian Corpuscle located nearby, overloading the nerve, causing it to send pain signals to the brain… 7)Which we feel as “pins and needles” 8 ) The inflamed area is red due to the damage (which is why this condition is commonly mistaken for an allergy, ) 9) If the sweat pore is kept unobstructed for over three weeks the deeper obstruction will be cleared through natural skin renewal.
And there you have it… my theory on what is going on and what needs to happen (step #9).


Title: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: nowash on April 29, 2011, 12:29:55 AM


So I finally got around to testing chondroitin sulfate and I can tell you that it helps me. Sweat seems to be able to break through my skin easier where earlier I wouldn’t even feel it until after I had fully broken out. The hives are less or not there at all.
I had always assumed this would work by stabilizing mast cells as one in vitro study showed, however as I was looking through the mirror I noticed my acne was doing better as well. Now mast cells may be involved with acne, I’m not certain, but I started wondering if it was the sulfate that was making my hives better by maybe clearing the keratin plugs. I remembered when I was looking up how to deal with my acne I read the wiki page that mentioned sulfur baths were useful in the old days; sulfur supposedly helped you shed dead skin cells preventing acne comedones from forming. Just recently I got a hold on the latest review article over ChU through my university’s subscriptions (Cholinergic urticaria: pathogenesis-based categorization and its treatment options, and one of the subtypes proposed for ChU was one presenting with keratin plugs over the sweat glands.
So I went out and bought some sulfur ointment, Prosacea for rosacea I think it is, and applied it to my chest, the place where I usually itch first. I then waited for an attack, which is not hard in Texas. I noticed that the sulfur treatment seemed to work in the area I applied it. Except it smelled. So I knew there were sulfur compounds that might be in supplement form, and there was one I knew of, methylsulfonylmethane (MSM).
So I went out and bought some MSM and am currently trying it. I am taking around 4 x 1000mg capsules per day and it helps. I can’t say it helps as well as the chondroitin sulfate, but it helps. I did find that keratosis pilaris sufferers use MSM to help with their condition which is caused by hyperkeratinization so maybe it works. Although I can’t find any articles on PubMed about MSM and keratosis.
Maybe there is some synergy going on with chondroitin sulfate with mast cell stabilizing and keratolytic properties, but I’m not even certain sulfate has keratolytic properties. However I was thinking about trying an epsom salt bath to see if that helps, since it is magnesium sulfate.

Title: Re: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: silvertones on May 01, 2011, 05:58:35 AM


If you are getting results from a treatment for Rosasia try a low acid diet. My wife cured her self this way and also her sister. maybe it’ll help this condition. Worth a try.

Title: Re: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: nowash on May 06, 2011, 05:40:22 PM


Thanks silvertones.
Just wanted to give an update.
It seems chondroitin doesn’t work anymore or never did. The first brand I tried had chondroitin sulfate (1200 mg) along with glucosamine HCl (1500 mg), MSM (500 mg), and a proprietary blend of silica and hyaluronic acid (40 mg). To isolate what was seeming to help in this pill, I bought some supplement with only chondroitin sulfate (which says “Chondroitin Sulfate A (500 mg)”, I wonder if “A” makes a difference…). This pill did not seem to do anything, so I went back to the first brand.
Maybe it takes a while to work or something, but I took 1 serving of the first brand today and tried to exercise and broke out. I also applied 2% salicylic acid (Stridex pad) to my left arm and sunflower oil to my right (for the linoleic acid, lol…). Neither had much if any effect.
Looking back at the research article that led me to chondroitin (T C Theoharides et al. Chondroitin sulphate inhibits connective tissue mast cells, 2000, it seems that the type of chondroitin might matter. Theoharides et al. used chondroitin sulfate derived from shark cartilage, which was 90% type C. The researchers used rat connective tissue mast cells, rat basophilic leukemia cells (considered homologous to mucosal mast cells), and human umbilical chord mast cells. The chondroitin had effects greater than cromolyn in the human umbilical chord mast cells, yet only inhibited 12.2% of histamine secretion when compared to control (IgE-mediated stimulation). The concentration was 10^(-5) M.
Maybe I’ll buy some shark cartilage. I know they use cromolyn (Gastrocrom, etc.) for mastocytosis and asthma. It’s not used anymore in inhaler form, at least in the U.S.

Title: Re: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: nowash on May 06, 2011, 07:27:06 PM


Wow, I did not know some forms of chondroitin were derived from bovine trachea and could theoretically pass on mad cow disease…

Title: The blank Post by: VIP on November 29, 2011, 07:07:04 PM


I have had cholinergic urticaria due to poral occlusion for the last two years of my life it has literally sucked the life from me, im sure you can all relate 😀
It effects my ability to function at college (currently on medical leave), it wakes me up every night in pain, I can’t eat any warm food, hot drinks, exercise, laugh, have any emotions or get involved with anything that stimulates my sweat glands because it will all end with me lying on the ground in pain due to systemic inflammation (sounds exciting am I right!?)
I am currently living in an almost year round cold climate country and it’s winter here right now so it’s even harder for my already occluded sweat glands to open up in this weather. Couple that with humidity near saturation point year round and your body will have a very hard time sweating full stop. (People who have Cholinergic Urticaria due to poral occlusion will generally have it worse in the winter, it’s a tricky subject because it depends on your residing country, weather, time of year, humidity etc)
Drugs I have tried through my dermatologists that have failed miserably
– cetirizine – loratadine – ketotifen – hydroxyzine – doxepin – danazol – stanozolol
After that there are very few drugs left to play around with, you have the likes of cortiosteroids but there pretty much useless in relation to the duration they can be used for not to mention the immunocompromised state you will be left in.
Also the fact that your not fighting the cause of the inflammation but just trying to suppress the inflammation.
I am soon to try singulair before I making a crucial decision in my life.
Also apart from all the drugs I have being prescribed legally I have also turned to the black market to attempt to cure this condition myself, from drugs to induce hyperhydrosis, SNS stimulator’s, D2 agonists, IV ethanol etc basically anything and everything I could find literature on relating to urticaria. Also tried keratolytic related bathing agents, last to try on that list are experimental peptides such as IL-8 Inhibitors, Interleukin-1 receptor antagonist IL-1RA and pentapeptide (320 to 324) which I haven’t got around to researching enough about yet to even begin to contemplate using personally. (NEVER EVER USE ANY DRUG PURCHASED OVER THE INTERNET OR PLAY AT HOME DOCTOR, I HAVE AN ADEPT KNOWLEDGE IN DRUG PHARMACOLOGY)
The crucial decision I have to make is…. well… it’s moving away from home, it’s the cure for cholinergic urticaria due to poral occlusion. Yep! Living in the correct environment. Living in a warm country which causes daily sweating will inhibit the formation of keratotic plugs will prevent the occurrence of cholinergic urticaria due to poral occlusion.
And yes I have already put it to the test and it was an amazing feeling to be able to run, gym and just live normal again.
So it looks like I will be getting a one way ticket to a warm country very soon (not going to say which, hey maybe we could set up an island for people with cholinergic urticaria lol)
You know what’s hard? It’s having to leave the place where you grew up, friends and family all because of a medical condition they barely understand. (not their fault)
I only wished I could have found a drug that would cause remission so I could at least visit my family back home for xmas 🙁 *sigh*
At least I will have a decent quality of life where I can actually live up to my potential and do the things I want to do in this place I am moving to.
Life is but a short flash of light, live life on your terms and never let somebody tell you something can’t be achieved!
I felt like sharing my frustration with you guys, but I also find sometimes posting and getting a chance to read it from a third person view can help making a decision easier.
There are different sub-categories to Cholinergic Urticaria I would advise you to research and figure out which one you have so you can target it effectively
I wish you all the best fighting this madness! 8)

Title: Re: The blank Post by: nowash on November 30, 2011, 06:32:48 AM


You could try treating it like keratosis pilaris. Have you tried MSM or retinoic acid or cod liver oil or eating raw cabbage leaves (or accutane)?
I know for certain that retinoic acid and MSM will smooth out my face and acne, which seems to suggest an effect that works differently than just stopping sebum production, suggesting that it stops hyperkeratinization. I also think it is minorly mentioned in the literature that retinoic acid does help hyperkeratinization, but that most articles just emphasize the sebum stopping properties. I also know for certain MSM makes me feel like I am sweating too much by leaving my skin dry, if that’s any indication for its mechanism of action.
You could also try a 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor. I remember reading something on psoriasis and a small tidbit on how LT-B4 could be causing hyperkeratinization. Can’t guarantee I read that right though.

Title: Re: The blank Post by: HivesGuy on December 01, 2011, 06:04:33 AM


Hey Vip,
Thanks for that awesome write up and for sharing your experiences. Welcome to the forum as well!
I am very sorry to hear of your struggles and disappointments with the medications. I know it can be frustrating by trying so much and being left without a cure. But at least you are maintaining a positive attitude, and you are being PROACTIVE about trying to control your symptoms. I think that is the key.
I understand your desire to move, and if you’ve tested it and your body responded well to this, then perhaps it is something you can try.
It seems you really don’t want to move, and you only are doing it as a “last resort.” The only other advice I could offer after reading your post is this: You may want to consider trying to keep the sweat out by other methods first.
In your post you didn’t mention anything about a steam room, sauna, or trying to keep a vaporizer on at home (with a temperature of around 70’s).
I’m sleeping with a vaporizer in my room at nights, and I also use it when I work out. This is really helping to keep my skin moisturized and to keep my body used to sweating.
An alternative is using a small portable steam capsule or sauna at home, which I’ve read some people use year round (or at least during the winter), to maintain regular sweating.
So if you haven’t tried those things, you may want to give them a shot before you make the final decision to move (since you don’t want to do it in the first place).
I hope that helps. Thanks for your post.

Title: Re: The blank Post by: VIP on December 01, 2011, 08:59:01 AM


You could try treating it like keratosis pilaris. Have you tried MSM or retinoic acid or cod liver oil or eating raw cabbage leaves (or accutane)?
I know for certain that retinoic acid and MSM will smooth out my face and acne, which seems to suggest an effect that works differently than just stopping sebum production, suggesting that it stops hyperkeratinization. I also think it is minorly mentioned in the literature that retinoic acid does help hyperkeratinization, but that most articles just emphasize the sebum stopping properties. I also know for certain MSM makes me feel like I am sweating too much by leaving my skin dry, if that’s any indication for its mechanism of action.
Excellent observation, I also came across this when savaging across the net.
According to Ferri’s Color’s Atlas and Text of Clinical Medicine
Chapter 3 – Disorders of keratinization
• Condition characterized by abnormal keratinization
• Clinical features range from mild involvement, often passed off as dry skin (xerosis) to severe widespread scaly lesions (Fig. 3-1), causing discomfort and social embarrassment.
• Treatment consists of hydration (humidification of environment, bathing, soaking) and use of creams, lotions, or ointments for lubrication. Second-line therapies involve the use of keratolytics (urea, lactic acid, salicylic acid), topical retinoids (tretinoin, tazarotene), or calcipotriol.
Certainly some striking similar environmental features which one could collateral with cholinergic urticaria due to poral occlusion.
My take on this would be that cholinergic urticaria due to poral occlusion could very well be some sort of whole body systemic variation of the condition. Which occurs somewhere between the dermis epidermis layers of the skin. As I can see zero visual evidence of any keratosis pilaris on the outer superficial layers of my skin.
After looking into keratosis pilaris I though I had cracked the code and unlocked what I needed to resolve this condition. I tested a keratolytic bathing agent called epsom salts. Unfortunately I noticed no difference. I also tried accutance (the systemic retinoid isotretinoin), I ran it a low dose of 10-15mg’s/day for 4-5 weeks which again to no avail also did nothing to help my condition.
Before giving up on the keratosis pilaris idea I tested a cream caller “calmurid” which contains 10% urea and 5% lactic acid in the form of active ingredients. Which are supposed to work as keratolytic agents as can be seen above under the treatment for keratinization disorders.
Perhaps I didn’t use them for long enough, one might assume it takes a long time to break down these keratotic plugs?

You could also try a 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor. I remember reading something on psoriasis and a small tidbit on how LT-B4 could be causing hyperkeratinization. Can’t guarantee I read that right though.
Another good idea which I will be testing out soon, my dermatologist will be prescribing me montelukast which is a 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor very soon. So *fingers crossed* for any sort of results

Title: Re: The blank Post by: VIP on December 01, 2011, 09:27:07 AM


Hey Vip,
Thanks for that awesome write up and for sharing your experiences. Welcome to the forum as well!
No, thank you for reading!
I am very sorry to hear of your struggles and disappointments with the medications. I know it can be frustrating by trying so much and being left without a cure. But at least you are maintaining a positive attitude, and you are being PROACTIVE about trying to control your symptoms. I think that is the key.
Absolutely there is so much left for me to accomplish in life, I can’t give up now, this is only going to make me a stronger person when I get to the other side.
I understand your desire to move, and if you’ve tested it and your body responded well to this, then perhaps it is something you can try.
It seems you really don’t want to move, and you only are doing it as a “last resort.” The only other advice I could offer after reading your post is this: You may want to consider trying to keep the sweat out by other methods first.
I am currently experiencing regret as a result of taking my life for granted.
Secondly I have this frustration with the world. I want to stay at home and finish my studies but what’s preventing me is not been able to find a drug that can allow me to finish. Then I could move. I have no problem leaving to move to another country so to speak.

In your post you didn’t mention anything about a steam room, sauna, or trying to keep a vaporizer on at home (with a temperature of around 70’s).
I think the home vaporizer is a very good idea but I can’t see it helping me in any way outside the house. Let me explain. I have been able to exercise up until the last few months of my life, I could work through the pain of the hives for 5 min’s until I could get a sweat going. But now due to the weather in winter. It takes 20+ min’s of unbearable pain to get that same sweat going.
Before my sweatglands would only take a few minutes until they opened so I would only have a leakage of sweat which contain numerous enzymes, such as renin-like substances, secretory IgA, IgE and cytokines including interleukin 1a and b, and interleukin 8 that induce the local inflammation and cause weals for up until I could get a sweat going. But now that the weather is worse in the winter I have a much longer time to wait until I break a sweat. And I just can’t ignore 20+ min’s of crazy burning pain anymore. With out it bringing me to my knees.
Once I have my sweat glands open I am immune to anything that other wise would set me off because the sweat is not blocked and leaking into my skin causing inflammation. But the second they close up due to lack of stimulation from stopping exercising they will close up and I would have to go through the same thing all over again

I’m sleeping with a vaporizer in my room at nights, and I also use it when I work out. This is really helping to keep my skin moisturized and to keep my body used to sweating.
An alternative is using a small portable steam capsule or sauna at home, which I’ve read some people use year round (or at least during the winter), to maintain regular sweating.
So if you haven’t tried those things, you may want to give them a shot before you make the final decision to move (since you don’t want to do it in the first place).
I hope that helps. Thanks for your post.

Thanks for all your help and advice guys, I appreciate it!


Title: Re: The blank Post by: VIP on December 01, 2011, 09:39:58 AM


Here are two studies you guys might want to check out, if they are infringing any copyrights let me know and I will delete them.

Therapeutic alternatives for chronic urticaria (evidence based review) part 1 & 2 (2008) Cholinergic urticaria pathogenesis based categorization and its treatment options (2011)


Title: Re: The blank Post by: nowash on December 01, 2011, 01:48:25 PM


Montelukast won’t stop LT-B4, it only blocks the cysteinyl leukotrienes. LT-B4 works through a different receptor.
You should try high dose MSM and tell me if that does anything. You could also try a low glycemic diet.

Title: Re: The blank Post by: VIP on December 02, 2011, 08:15:30 AM


Montelukast won’t stop LT-B4, it only blocks the cysteinyl leukotrienes. LT-B4 works through a different receptor.
You should try high dose MSM and tell me if that does anything. You could also try a low glycemic diet.

Thanks for the info, going to let my doc know zileuton is the one I need to try!!
I will be testing out some MSM very soon, worth a shot!
I found low GI/L diets did noting for me!


Title: Re: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: VIP on December 13, 2011, 12:46:50 PM


I have been taking MSM @ 9 grams a day (3×3) for near going on two weeks now and zero difference
I noticed your post was made in April perhaps the weather was making it easier for you to sweat and not the MSMAre you still taking it?
At what dosage?
Do you find it’s helping you right now during the winter months?
Thanks
– VIP

Title: Re: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: nowash on December 15, 2011, 06:07:20 AM


I’m taking it on and off, at 4 grams a day, sometimes 6.
Actually I think I have the IgE mediated version of this disease now, since my hives get better in the winter. Supposedly MSM works for allergies, but there wasn’t any talk of a mechanism for it. And maybe that article isn’t so credible but who knows… I know it clears up my face though, and now looking back that may just be because the histamine isn’t there as much.
It sounds like I’m sending you on a wild goose chase but have you tried raw cabbage leaves yet?
The chondroitin and glucosamine also still helps me a bit when it works. It’s one of the few things that’s gotten rid of my headache and fixed my vision from time to time it seems.

Title: Re: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: VIP on December 17, 2011, 04:32:42 PM


I think were all on our own wild goose chase with this condition
Are you recommending me raw cabbage leaves because of there soporific properties (to dull awareness) or is there another reason?
Have you considered anti-IgE peptides for your sub type?
Best of luck on your journey!
– VIP

Title: Re: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: nowash on December 20, 2011, 09:15:34 PM


I didn’t know cabbage was a hypnotic. No wonder my sauerkraut always ends up tasting lazy.
The reason is on wikipedia; supposedly once upon a time cabbage leaves were used to treat acne due to the sulfur content. Pretty sure raw cabbage helps clear my face, but it tastes terrible. It might help.
And no, I haven’t tried omalizumab. I was going to, but after I saw the increase in cancer risk I decided not to. Maybe I’ll try it after helminthic therapy.
And thanks, best of luck to you too.

Title: Re: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: VIP on January 01, 2012, 12:52:16 PM


“The increased risk of cancer was 0.5% of people treated for less than one year as opposed to 0.2% of people not treated.”
That’s a 0.3% (unconfirmed) risk of getting cancer. Unless you have a strong family history of cancer or are currently diagnosed then this statistic is almost irrelevant. I have a higher risk of dieing from cancer by just reading your post. Hell I am currently on cyclosporine which has a significant cancer risk worth it though if this stuff works for my subtype if not then I lost nothing.
I would be on omalizumab faster than light if I had your subtype
Think about it for a minute…
Get hooked up with some good medical insurance and convince your doctor to just test it out. It would be worth every cent if it worked and would let you put all this behind you.
That’s my 2 cents take it or leave it

Title: Re: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: Cathie on January 01, 2012, 08:40:39 PM


I posted in this forum about apple cider vinegar toner and I’ve noticed a drastic reduction in that pins and needle sensation that usually comes on before sweating. I think it’s working to unclog everything. This is the toner I’m using…I don’t spray it on because it’s cold, but I spray it onto cotton squares and wipe it on.

Title: Re: Sulfur for Keratin Plugs? Post by: nowash on January 02, 2012, 04:08:25 PM


Yeah maybe i’ll try omalizumab after helminthic therapy. I was planning on going through with it but learned it was not a cure; you have to keep taking it. That’s a double risk for cancer from the norm; if I have to keep taking it, it could potentially cut my lifespan in half. I’m not ready to sell my soul when there’s other options out there.
Good luck with the cyclosporine.

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