Title: Scopolamine Butylbromide for Cholinergic Urticaria?? Post by: saywhat on January 27, 2009, 04:20:49 PM
Hello All,
I’m new to this forum but had followed a previous one and recognize some of the handles here. Cholinergic Urticaria used to control my life, now it’s been reduced to nagging inconvenience. I’ve tried a bunch of different vitamins and holistic treatments. Vitamin C and B’s have been somewhat effective. The best I’ve tried so far has been a regular diet of treadmill exercise, to the dose of 3 miles a day.
After making my way through a couple of pages worth of google search results I came across an interesting article. It mentioned a case of Cholinergic Urticaria being completely cured by scopolamine butylbromide. I haven’t tried this, nor have I visited a doctor about the condition, though I think an Immunologist would be the specialist to see.
Has anyone else come across this drug, or have any further information about its interaction with Cholinergic Urticaria?
Has anyone else come across this drug, or have any further information about its interaction with Cholinergic Urticaria?
To find the articles I’ve read google scopolamine butylbromide + cholinergic urticaria.
Title: Re: Interesting potential cure Post by: HivesGuy on February 01, 2009, 02:11:57 PM
Hello Saywhat,
Excellent post and welcome to the forum!
Sorry that it took a few days to reply, I actually read your post but it was late and thought I would reply the next day, but I forgot completely and got distracted by other posts! But that was awesome info and sorry about the delay!
Anyways, that is pretty impressive about the 3 mile treadmill run. So you do this daily now and it helps you? Does it itch when you start to sweat still?
My wife wants an elliptical, and I hope to get some exercise equipment later in the year.
Anyways, about the scopolamine butylbromide, I think it is some sort of muscle relaxant. It is supposed to calm down spasms and things. They also use it for IBS (according to wiki), because I assume it helps to reduce the muscle cramping of the intestines. One article said they used antihistamines & the scopolamine to treat Cholinergic Urticaria. The only thing is, it seems that if you stop taking it the symptoms would return.
I couldn’t find the whole article, but I did see an excerpt from blackwell-synergy and it said this:
“Therefore, we attempted oral scopolamine butylbromide treatment, which remarkably improved all the patient’s cholinergic urticaria symptoms…”
That is all it showed. My wife is a nursing student (she graduates with her RN this semester), and she has a very handy drug book. It lists all the drugs, what they do, and the side effects as well. Here is what it says about Scopolamine:
Class: Antiemetic, anticholinergic, mydriatic
Action: Inhibits acetylcholine at receptor sites in autonomic nervous system, which controls secretions,free acids in stomach, blocks central muscarinic receptors, which decreases involuntary movements, blocks response of iris sphincter muscle, muscle of accommodation of ciliary body to cholinergic stimulation, resulting in diliation, paralysis of accomodation.
Common Uses: Reduction of secretions before surgery, calm delirium, unveitis, iritis,cycloplegia, mydriasis, prevention of motion sickness, parkinson symptoms.
Potential Adverse Side Effects of Scopolamine: Confusion, drowsiness, disorientation, hallucinations, dedation, depression, incoherence, dizziness, excitement, delirium, flushing, weakness, memory disturbances, palpitations, tachycardia, postural hypotension, paradoxial bradycarida, blurred vision, photophobia, dilated pupils, difficulty swallowing, mydriasis, cycloplegia, altered depth perception, dry mouth, dry, itchy red eyes, narow angle glaucoma, constipation, nausea, vomiting, abdominal distress, paralytic ileus, hesitancy, retention, rash, erythema, suppression of lactation, nasal congestion, decreased sweating.
So based on all of that, I am not too sure if I want to try it ???. But it would be interesting to know if it works well. If anyone want more info, you can always ask a doctor. I wonder if eventually this will become a treatment for Cholinergic Urticaria, at least, temporarily??
But it definitely seems like it may have lots of potential bad side effects, and the “flushing” side effect really caught my attention, since some of us do that during an attack.
Anyways, great post, and once again welcome to the forum!
Sorry that it took a few days to reply, I actually read your post but it was late and thought I would reply the next day, but I forgot completely and got distracted by other posts! But that was awesome info and sorry about the delay!
Anyways, that is pretty impressive about the 3 mile treadmill run. So you do this daily now and it helps you? Does it itch when you start to sweat still?
My wife wants an elliptical, and I hope to get some exercise equipment later in the year.
Anyways, about the scopolamine butylbromide, I think it is some sort of muscle relaxant. It is supposed to calm down spasms and things. They also use it for IBS (according to wiki), because I assume it helps to reduce the muscle cramping of the intestines. One article said they used antihistamines & the scopolamine to treat Cholinergic Urticaria. The only thing is, it seems that if you stop taking it the symptoms would return.
I couldn’t find the whole article, but I did see an excerpt from blackwell-synergy and it said this:
“Therefore, we attempted oral scopolamine butylbromide treatment, which remarkably improved all the patient’s cholinergic urticaria symptoms…”
That is all it showed. My wife is a nursing student (she graduates with her RN this semester), and she has a very handy drug book. It lists all the drugs, what they do, and the side effects as well. Here is what it says about Scopolamine:
Class: Antiemetic, anticholinergic, mydriatic
Action: Inhibits acetylcholine at receptor sites in autonomic nervous system, which controls secretions,free acids in stomach, blocks central muscarinic receptors, which decreases involuntary movements, blocks response of iris sphincter muscle, muscle of accommodation of ciliary body to cholinergic stimulation, resulting in diliation, paralysis of accomodation.
Common Uses: Reduction of secretions before surgery, calm delirium, unveitis, iritis,cycloplegia, mydriasis, prevention of motion sickness, parkinson symptoms.
Potential Adverse Side Effects of Scopolamine: Confusion, drowsiness, disorientation, hallucinations, dedation, depression, incoherence, dizziness, excitement, delirium, flushing, weakness, memory disturbances, palpitations, tachycardia, postural hypotension, paradoxial bradycarida, blurred vision, photophobia, dilated pupils, difficulty swallowing, mydriasis, cycloplegia, altered depth perception, dry mouth, dry, itchy red eyes, narow angle glaucoma, constipation, nausea, vomiting, abdominal distress, paralytic ileus, hesitancy, retention, rash, erythema, suppression of lactation, nasal congestion, decreased sweating.
So based on all of that, I am not too sure if I want to try it ???. But it would be interesting to know if it works well. If anyone want more info, you can always ask a doctor. I wonder if eventually this will become a treatment for Cholinergic Urticaria, at least, temporarily??
But it definitely seems like it may have lots of potential bad side effects, and the “flushing” side effect really caught my attention, since some of us do that during an attack.
Anyways, great post, and once again welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: Interesting potential cure Post by: saywhat on February 05, 2009, 12:05:40 PM
Since I’m already confused and incoherent I think i’ll avoid the scopolamine…
The treadmill really seems to help. I still do it daily, and I’ve found that taking an antihistamine–Zyrtec being my preference–about 15 minutes before the run makes the antihistamine more effective throughout its effective life. I’ve weened myself down to taking one 10 mg Zyrtec because the hives have been less pervasive, but I used to take two of the pills when I was more concerned about breaking out in public. I’ll admit, 2 Zyrtecs prevented me from doing so quite well in most situations.
I still get the itchy sensation when I heat up. It usually begins between 5 and 7 minutes into the run and gradually fades after another 5 minutes. I have to warn you that the first couple times I began this routine the hives were horrible. The itching was severe, painful in fact. But after couple weeks the itching began to subside and it really isn’t that bad now. It’s still there and definitely noticable, but very much tolerable. Now, strange as it may seem, I hope to get a lot of hives as I run simply because the more hives I get while running generally means the less hives i’ll get later in the day.
Like I said before when I first started the hives were terrible after the run. I’ve noticed now that I seem to have less and less after the workout. I’m far more confident in public–not that I had a confidence issue, but rather I was very self conscious that I’d break out while in a situation where I couldn’t smoothly extract myself. I can honestly say that that isn’t the case now.
It still bothers me on an intellectual level that the itching remains, that I dont know what this condition is or why I have it, and that it may take years to eliminate completely. But by self inducing the hives, Cholinergic Urticaria no longer limits my ability to enjoy hanging out with my friends, going to unfamiliar social events, making presentations, or public speaking. Plus i’m in the best shape of my life and have more energy than I can possibly expend.
I highly recommend the daily run. In the mean time I’ll keep my eye out for any new off label miracle cures…
-Brad
The treadmill really seems to help. I still do it daily, and I’ve found that taking an antihistamine–Zyrtec being my preference–about 15 minutes before the run makes the antihistamine more effective throughout its effective life. I’ve weened myself down to taking one 10 mg Zyrtec because the hives have been less pervasive, but I used to take two of the pills when I was more concerned about breaking out in public. I’ll admit, 2 Zyrtecs prevented me from doing so quite well in most situations.
I still get the itchy sensation when I heat up. It usually begins between 5 and 7 minutes into the run and gradually fades after another 5 minutes. I have to warn you that the first couple times I began this routine the hives were horrible. The itching was severe, painful in fact. But after couple weeks the itching began to subside and it really isn’t that bad now. It’s still there and definitely noticable, but very much tolerable. Now, strange as it may seem, I hope to get a lot of hives as I run simply because the more hives I get while running generally means the less hives i’ll get later in the day.
Like I said before when I first started the hives were terrible after the run. I’ve noticed now that I seem to have less and less after the workout. I’m far more confident in public–not that I had a confidence issue, but rather I was very self conscious that I’d break out while in a situation where I couldn’t smoothly extract myself. I can honestly say that that isn’t the case now.
It still bothers me on an intellectual level that the itching remains, that I dont know what this condition is or why I have it, and that it may take years to eliminate completely. But by self inducing the hives, Cholinergic Urticaria no longer limits my ability to enjoy hanging out with my friends, going to unfamiliar social events, making presentations, or public speaking. Plus i’m in the best shape of my life and have more energy than I can possibly expend.
I highly recommend the daily run. In the mean time I’ll keep my eye out for any new off label miracle cures…
-Brad
Title: Re: Interesting potential cure Post by: HivesGuy on February 06, 2009, 11:50:41 AM
I have never at this point taken zyrtec, although I have heard quite a few Cholinergic Urticaria people say it does help some. I have a couple of 10mg samples on the top of my cabinet that I have been saving for a “rainy” day. I will probably use them for my wife’s graduation here in a few months (Crowd+anxiety+heat=Cholinergic Urticaria). But I can’t wait to see if they help me or not. I will update everyone.
I agree that it is frustrating not knowing what is going on, why we have it, etc. I hope that we
all find out, or it at least goes away soon (forever hopefully).
I really plan to try this exercise thing though. That is great that you have been able to manage your hives better recently. That is my hope. If they don’t go away completely, I hope I can at least get them to the point where I hardly think about them.
Thanks for the great update!
I agree that it is frustrating not knowing what is going on, why we have it, etc. I hope that we
all find out, or it at least goes away soon (forever hopefully).
I really plan to try this exercise thing though. That is great that you have been able to manage your hives better recently. That is my hope. If they don’t go away completely, I hope I can at least get them to the point where I hardly think about them.
Thanks for the great update!
Title: Re: Interesting potential cure Post by: dice on February 06, 2009, 05:26:01 PM
From the looks of things, Zyrtec seems to be over the counter but I’ve heard little to nothing about it’s availability in the UK. I’m assuming that you’re all from America (or Canada etc.) but I’d just like to confirm whether this is the case.
Also how easily do you think I’d be able to get this as a prescription from my doctor (GP)?
Also how easily do you think I’d be able to get this as a prescription from my doctor (GP)?
Title: Re: Interesting potential cure Post by: HivesGuy on February 06, 2009, 06:25:12 PM
Yes, it is over the counter here in the US.
As far as getting a possible prescription, I wouldn’t think it would be very difficult at all. Your doctor may even suggest a few antihistamines, and you can bring up Zyrtec to see what he/she thinks.
As far as getting a possible prescription, I wouldn’t think it would be very difficult at all. Your doctor may even suggest a few antihistamines, and you can bring up Zyrtec to see what he/she thinks.
Title: Re: Interesting potential cure Post by: HivesGuy on February 06, 2009, 06:36:46 PM
Oh yeah, by the way- Last time I checked at the store I think the cost was around $4-5 for 1 pill! So if that is right, that would run around $140 a month if you take them daily.
I don’t know if you have medical insurance, but if you don’t I just wanted to give a heads up. I guess in the UK that might equate to about 8-9 pounds (or whatever currency it is lol).
So they definitely aren’t cheap. But who knows, they may be cheaper over there??
I don’t know if you have medical insurance, but if you don’t I just wanted to give a heads up. I guess in the UK that might equate to about 8-9 pounds (or whatever currency it is lol).
So they definitely aren’t cheap. But who knows, they may be cheaper over there??
Title: Re: Interesting potential cure Post by: saywhat on February 11, 2009, 05:46:57 PM
The cost of over the counter Zyrtec is about $1 US per pill for the 10mg dose. There is also a generic version which costs significantly less, unfortunately I cant remember the name. You can find Zyrtec at any pharmacy–in the US at least.